Control Scapes Control Systems

[paulJr]

What does everyone think about the control scape system. I have been intalling them for a while

[INTEGRA Works]

I took a good look at the Control Scapes UPB system and then decided that I would go with Simply Automated instead. I was not impressed with the fit and finish of the CS components and would not feel comfortable promoting that line to my clients.

The Simply Automated line seems to have nicer components and a wider variety of options available.

Have a great day.

[Eden Lights]

Remember that SA is not licensing the Generation II technology while everyone else is on board and it has proven far superior in the field for me in noisey and signal attenuated enviroments. I would not recommend any non-genII equipment for you clients.

[Paul]

Eddie, are you saying that CS is superior to SA? I consider you the expert in controls so I really am interested in your thoughts. We (Jr and I) have been using CS for about a year and have had very few problems with it.

[INTEGRA Works]

Remember that SA is not licensing the Generation II technology while everyone else is on board and it has proven far superior in the field for me in noisey and signal attenuated enviroments. I would not recommend any non-genII equipment for you clients.

I asked my distributor about the difference between Gen II and Gen I and here is what he came back to me with:

James
You asked me about UPB version I vs. Version II. HAI have just released version II UPB dimmers. I asked Simply Automated why they had not upgraded to version II. The simply answer is that version I works better in a low signal situation. What UPB Version II does is boost the signal on the transmitter and lower the sensitivity on the receiver so it works better in a noisy environment. However most noise can be isolated and is not a problem. The more serious problem is where you have multiple electrical panels and the signal gets down to below 20. Version I will still work (right down to low teens) while version II will not.

They also mentioned that they have a dimmer that controls electronic ballasts in the works. May be a little while off yet but it has been designed.

Thought you might be interested.

I would like to hear more about what people know on this subject.

Regards.

[Eden Lights]

Eddie, are you saying that CS is superior to SA? I consider you the expert in controls so I really am interested in your thoughts. We (Jr and I) have been using CS for about a year and have had very few problems with it.

Paul, what I am saying is GenII is superior to GenI devices in noisey enviroments and that is where 95% of all my problems have been when working with UPB as a technology. You can read all about the technical aspects if you wish just by doing a little google search. I will try to post some links in the next few days on the articles that I have read. I have heard the explanation direct from SA at EHX of why they are not going GenII, but I think it's smoke and mirrors myself and I think they just don't want to pony up the new license fees. We had two small systems this month that became unreliable after being in service for a year or more, Luckly they where small systems and I just changed everything to GenII and rolled on. Both of them where the same: two to three appliance modules, a SA keypad, with one having a SA timer and one had a GenI PCS timer. Upon recieving the service call I went to the site and found noise on the power line in the 10-16 range and the system was unreliable. I called for some help on site and then starting checking for known noise makers: ballast, motors, lutron dimmer, bad dimmer, bad power supply, and etc. When help arrives start shutting down circuits to find noise: multiple panels (4-200amp boxes) Found some small noise and isolated, but still system is unreliable. At this point, I am starting loose my cool: two workers and three hours in I am not happy. I start pulling everything and send someone to the truck to get a CS timer, a box of GenII appliance modules, and a GenII keypad. Ten mintues later system is rock solid in a very noisey powerline. Trying to find noise can eat your profits so fast your crazy to not do everything you can to prevent these type of problems for several reasons. On the second job I found the same thing and didn't even blink, we just installed all GenII stuff and rolled on. While I think SA is a good company with some very good people and products they are going to have to update to GenII or prove me otherwise. If you need more real world stories hop on over to cocoontech and on the automation forum do a search for UPB and GenII and also pay special attention to the posts by LightenUP, he handles UPB for the OLP powerhouse.

I sell controls on every job and sometimes it's not a easy sell. I make some strong promises to my clients with my word and my contracts, so I don't have a place for products that don't perform and likewise I don't sell my clients something that they don't benefit from just because it had a nice margin. There is still nothing like UPB for our application and I would hate to loose it, but I would go back to RadioRA if I had to continue with GenI stuff.

[Eden Lights]

I asked my distributor about the difference between Gen II and Gen I and here is what he came back to me with:

James
However most noise can be isolated and is not a problem. The more serious problem is where you have multiple electrical panels and the signal gets down to below 20. Version I will still work (right down to low teens) while version II will not.

I would like to hear more about what people know on this subject.

Regards.

Sometimes the noise is not even in the clients home and when you call the local power company they get a big laugh. Easy maybe in theory?????