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Mike M
07-11-2008, 09:35 PM
Okay.

Kichler LED's are now on the shelves at the distrib's, in aluminum and brass, glare shields are sold separately.

I have one in brass (20 watt halogen equivalent) with the shield.

I like the DG LIGHTS the best, but this Kichler fixture, I predict, is a catalyst for change on a large scale.

Rumor/word on the street, warranty info: the brass will be 15 years including the solid state LED. That's a big deal.

Since I don't have the Kichler product installed or tested, I just want to make a comment on the item in-hand. In the pic's, I thought the product was ugly and big, but in hand, it's really cool, durable, machine-slick (whatever that means), and smaller/stealthier than I thought it would be.

Also, regarding the progress of the DG LIGHTS LED line. They now have two models of paths, an offset modern design, as well as a China-hat type. They have deck lights, and a growing variety of fixtures and impressive finishes. There is a new bullet designed to have a faster turn-over production time and improved price. The LED fixtures are being designed to have the LED removed/repaired, with lifetime warranty on the housing.

Prices for LED's are getting lower, and with the Kichler 15 year warranty (rumor), clients get a lot of value out of these fixtures (energy operation and light source longevity). In addition, installation price is further off-set by smaller wire and smaller trans, and easier configurations, less homeruns.

I figure with the Hadco pierce point, one 12 gauge run could snake throughout a property and handle about 1,000 fixtures (hehe).

Here is another key point about the LED's: no more little ovens in the field, acting like heat pumps. Halogens cook and accelerate corrosion (socket problems, seals needing replacement, etc.). LED's are a friendlier payload for fixtures. Also, I was told that with the heat reduction, there should also be less incidence of wicking.

INTEGRA Works
07-15-2008, 12:25 AM
And someday Mike, you might actually make your way over to www.ledlightsdirect.com and order a couple of samples of an LED MR16 lamp that actually does what it claims, has a remarkable light output, a very similar colour to halogen and a very low internal operating temperature.

They are also the first lamps on their type that work on both Electronic and Magnetic transformers.

Have a great day.

Mike M
07-16-2008, 09:15 PM
Lamps schmamps. I want a fixture made for the technology, and I want the whole enchilada right out of the box and thrown in the dirt.

INTEGRA Works
07-17-2008, 10:57 PM
Lamps schmamps. I want a fixture made for the technology, and I want the whole enchilada right out of the box and thrown in the dirt.

I don't get it Mike. Why would you need to re-invent all of the fixture technology just to support a new light source? This just doesnt make any sense to me at all.

By putting more resources into the lamp technology, we are able to make use of all the quality fixtures that have already been perfected.

sitelights
07-24-2008, 06:09 PM
The above exchange seems, on the one hand, to scorn filament lamps while on the other hand I detect reluctance in abandoning an evolved technology. It may be that walking away from an established technology in favor of a transitionless move to LEDs is simply a matter of a tiny installed base of halogen/xenon low voltage systems. Loyalty in this regard is to the client not the technology. Many of us have an installed base of thousands...tens of thousands...of filament lamp fixtures carefully selected and lamped in finely tuned, technically and aestheticly correct designs. At this moment pure LED solutions are light-quality constrained and technologically immature.

Long established designer/installer organizations have already made one transition from automotive type point sources (1141, 1156, etc.) to miniaturized halogen/xenon point sources. The next transition to solid state devices must be accomplished as seamlessly as the first. Don't hold your breath. It took over 15 years to get all of the light sources to achieve a Kelvin rating that provided uniform light quality. As I recall it was Focus that first advertised "all halogen" systems; they may simply have been the first to advertise, not the first to do it.

The SCB is still with us but now with a halogen/xenon capsule attached to the base. Low voltage landscape lighting fixture manufacturers are a very conservative bunch. Not to diss Hadco...many others did the same...they supplied 1156s with their pathlights and deck lights until very recently. The problem then, as it is now, is the Color Rendering Index; without matching CRIs an unwanted extra element is introduced into the lighting designer's spectrum. Variations in CRI are readily apparent to even the most casual observer.

Those designer/installer lighting companies relatively new to the business are spared the issue of antiquated hardware begging for an upgrade. It is easy to fall prey to an emerging technology that promises more than it can currently deliver. In our shop we still have at least 50 leftover made-to-our-spec SCBs with a bi-pin top that allowed us to make conversions before the halogen SCB came on the market. Providing the best product and the best service utilizing matching CRIs was left to the few individual designer/installer companies that saw the need and assigned resources to fill the need.

A similar aesthetic problem plagues the LED sources. Of course, if one does not notice the consequences of an inferior product the difference is not a problem. The quality of a product is based not simply on the client's perception which is usually and understandably inferior to the practiced eye of the seasoned expert but it is rather a committment to excellence that is built into the aesthetic experience by the designer.

Uniformity of output is of no concern to the manufacturers; their assessment is based on comparison of identical products bundled into the same housing not on a series of point sources in different fixtures utilizing different LEDs.

Nothing has really changed with the advent of LEDs. Our business is a mere blip on the screens of the big boys. Once again the business will be driven by forces that have no interest in what we all are trying to achieve.

The best I can say about LEDs is it can eliminate the socket interface. Conversion arrays in standard bases takes us right back to the old days.

Lightguy
08-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Anyone here with reliability information on LEDs ?
I guess I'm old fashioned going with tried and trued but I see the light at the end of the tunnel and its from an LED source.

SirJonesalot
10-22-2010, 05:40 AM
I’ve had some burning indoors 24-7 for a few years now without incident. I now have some 150 lumen led’s going outside for coming up on 4 months now. I’m sold! I bought cool white rather than warm because they are closer to natural daylight and it gets dark around here near 4:30pm in the winter months. These bulbs are cheery and bright and the best part is, the smallest of transformers will run a ton of them without using hardly any electricity.

tage
01-18-2011, 03:15 AM
I am using The Kichler LED, warm white light. I am loving it because if its low energy consumption. Kichler claims it will give 40,000 hours but I don’t know how much correct it is as I have installed it recently. It’s wonderful finishing of Nickel with glass adds it beauty.
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