We like it dark around here.

[JC Lighting]

QUESTION: I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in areas where there are no street lights and limited existing landscape lighting. If so, how did it affect your business? I'm trying to determine if this is an insurmountable problem or will it just take a while for really good subtle lighting to catch on?

(I tried to perform a search but it doesn't seem that I am understand the new system. So here is my problem.)

BACKGROUND: I am concerned that the success of my landscape lighting business in Bend, Oregon is going to be significantly limited due to home owners concern for the night sky and ambient light.

I successfully performed a number of jobs in northern California over 2003 and 2004 using 30 to 40 lights at each job. I then moved to Bend, Oregon in the fall of 2004. I have been been trying to get jobs now that the weather has warmed up for about 6 weeks with no luck. It seems that all the people want is a few path lights (runway lights) down the drive and walk way. Most of the high income homes are in communities with strick CC&R's that specifically limit the use of uplights and does not allow any "extensive" landscape lighting. I have performed 2 demos where I lit the home and landscape with about 20 - 25 lights using 10 & 20 watt T3 halogen lamps. The lighting was very subtle with no glare or light tresspass and since most of the uplight was captured by the eves of the house or in evergreen trees, very little light escaped beyond the level of the roof. The customers indicated that it was too much light. (There seemed to be a bit of sticker shock when I told them the price so they may be using the "too much light" as a way of saying no when they don't want to say "I don't have the budget for this nice lighting".)

Note that I have joined the Dark-Sky Association and sent them a photo of my brightest job with an explaination of how I achieved the effects. They indicated that it complied with their model lighting ordinance.

I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in areas where there are no street lights and limited existing landscape lighting. If so, how did it affect your business? I'm trying to determine if this is an insurmountable problem or will it just take a while for really good subtle lighting to catch on?

You comments will be appreciated.

[rick]

I can understand why many communities and individuals are concerned about Landscape Lighting. The Landscape Lighting industry has not informed the public about low voltage lighting, therefore regulations are passed by uninformed public officials. The Lighting Industry wants to sell as many fixtures as they can. To do this many hold one day seminars on how to do basic lighting. It almost always features many uplights on the facade of a home. In the North East it's usually unattractive and appears pretentious if not done well. Most installers are trained to overlight the homes facade. Most of my client's do not like or want this look and all are afraid of "to much light" on the front of the home. None have complained about "to much light" when I light the landscape. In fact, I install an extra run because they always want more. Try less light on the home and more on the landscape. I know this is contrary to California techniques, but Oregon preferences appear similiar to the North East.

Most of the Landscape Lighting manufacturers produce catalogs with pictures of homes all lit up. This does me more harm than good. I do carry them in my portfolio to use them as examples of the type of lighting I usually don't do. I realize in other parts of the country client's do want the facades of their homes lit, but I seldom get a request for it. I do illuminate the entry to a home and use the landscaping to bridge areas. Most of my client's want thier side or back yards lit ie.private spaces that friends and family enjoy.

If you plan on staying in Bend, Oregon I would do a lighting demo for the planning board. Bring in 7 small trees in containers (6'-8'), put an uplight in each container with a 20watt/60degree lamp with a frosted lens, this equals 140 watts total. Inform them that these seven lights use less power than one 150 watt floodlight used on the end of their homes or garage. Spread the trees in an arc around the room in front of the panel of officials. Turn the room lights off and turn the trees on. Allow the eyes of the people on the planning board to adjust to the lighting(at least 45 seconds) It will look very good! Now, while the room lights are still off, turn off the tree lights off and turn on a 150 watt flood light and shine it at them. Keep the flood light on for 45 seconds while you tell them that this light is equal in power to the 7 tree lights and commonly used everywhere without regulation. Given a choice, which would they prefer, the 7 uplights, or the one floodlight shining in their face. Ask them if they "can see" any reason to have an ordinance against uplighting.

[sitelights]

I disagree with the advice to set up a lighting demo for local officials.

The Dark Sky model code addresses high-powered lighting applications where no shielding, baffles or cut-off devices are used to control light spill. The light output of low voltage landscape lighting equipment does not create problems except where the lighting constitutes trespass onto an adjacent or nearby property.

Local regulators may have other issues with low voltage landscape lighting such as technical installation compliance with local and national codes but they are not empowered to regulate what is not within their jurisdiction. Unless the local officials have adopted a Dark Sky type code they have no say in the matter; if there is a code it will not prohibit low powered lighting unless it reaches a threshhold beyond the code limits. It is up to the requlators to put in place clear, well defined, appropriate and unambiguous regulations. The onus is on the local offficials to prove non-compliance with their rules by citing quantitative analyses using measuring devices that yield uniform results.

The demonstration suggested would be counter-productive in an indoor setting; the results of the lighting would create the false impression that the lighting was visible since it would reflect from the ceiling; lighting is not visible until it falls on an object and illuminates it. An outdoor demonstration preferably using an existing lighting system would be more real world and, unless it was raining, snowing or foggy, would show that upward light spill is not apparent in low output applications.

I am unconvinced that uninformed (and probably uninterested) local officials have the expertise to form an aesthetic judgement with sufficient validity to constitute an expert opinion.

[Eden Lights]

I think the trend of facade lighting has to do the with Architecture of the new homes and the lack of lot size for extensive landscape plans. I work in area of old and new money and as a general rule the older homes are wanting landscape lighting and the new homes are wanting facade lighting. From a ""too much light stand point" The major problem I see is fixture position, aiming, and shielding which causes glare and is precieved to be too bright. 350-700 CP from a 20W Lamp X reflectance of the object is the same on a facde or a tree for that matter. But I do Agree that my personal preference is Landscape lighting over facade lighting, something that can be enjoyed while indoors. My best "Landscape" customers always start out on the facade. Main facade photo attached is out of focus sorry.

[sitelights]

A fair number of projects that we've done over the years were essentially facade lighting. Early in my career I refused to light the front of a house for a prospective client. Was I a purist or a light snob? Particularly in new construction there is little else to light: immature trees, low shrubs, a desert of mulch. As stated in an earlier post I find facade lighting less challenging than the private outoor spaces where the lighting is seen from a static point rather than moving through or past the lighting placed for the convenience of guests and for curb appeal.

Site conditions determine the lighting scheme: when there is interesting landscaping, light the landscape; where the landscaping would not be enhanced by lighting, light the facade. There are technical and aesthetic decisions to be made in either case but don't walk away from a job because you cannot see a way to excellence...just don't put it in your portfolio. It is true as Eden Lights states that the lighting of a facade leads to lighting the landscape as the property matures; meanwhile you can pay your bills.

The lighting shown in Eden Lights' post does what we try to do under the same conditions: place the house back into the setting that was lost when the sun went down.

[rick]

Eden Lights-thank you for the pictures. Nice job. Did you run the feeds for the second story uplights up the raingutters ? How did you fasten them? Are they 20 watt/ 12 degree Mr-16 lamps and did you use any filters? I would not hesitate myself to light the facade of that stone home. I am presently working on a project that has a very similiar entrance and I have lit it the same as you. Uplights on stone pillars with a wooden frame supporting the roof, a fixture in the ceiling area of the entry aiming up and I also downlit the pergola on the front of the house.

My point is that my client originally called me to light one very large tree on his property and did not mention any lights on the facade of the house. After doing a demo and showing him that the tree was not a great candidate for illumination I recommended the facade because of the unique stone texture and the architectural features. Even though he and his wife were skeptical, I did a demo and they loved it. Like most of my client's in the North East they were originally worried about "to much light". This is a common problem that I encounter. I still believe that if JC lighting of Bend Oregon had illuminated a private area on his potential clients property and not the facade as is common in many places, he may have interested the client. I do not exclude facades, but it does have to warrant illumination. If it looks good I will light it, if not I won't. Some people want to enjoy their landscaping without bringing attention to themselves by lighting the facade of their home.

I do admit to being a light snob to some extent. I will not light a property if I feel I can not make it look good. If a property has no usable landscape and the home is a plain Jane with clapboard siding, then I probalby won't do it. I may shorten the life of my business, but my designs and pride do come first.

[Eden Lights]

A quick summary of this job is: Three Kichler plus series transformers mounted in the crawl space controlled by Advantage controls. Kichler 15384 MR16 fixtures on the first floor façade lamped with 20W 40 Degree Sylvania Tru-Aim Titan lamps with overall prismatic spread lens. The Titan has about 200 Center beam candlepower over the GE Precise with 4000-hour life vs. the GE’s 5000hr. I like the Titan because the extra CBCP makes up for the lens loss. On the left side of the home are two Kim KLV215 mini-floods under the windows mounted on Shining Through triple spikes lamped with T4 20W Halogen Bi-pin lamps. The Japanese Maples have four each Vista Ingrade fixtures model 5272 with Titan 20W 40 & 60 Degree MR16 Lamps. The start of the entrance walk has 2 Hadco CUL10 path lights with 20W T3 Halogen Bi-pin lamps. The second floor area runs are in the gutters from the left and the right. Kichler 15398 MR11 fixtures light the façade lamped with GE MR11’s in 20W 30 Degree lamps with an overall prismatic spread lens. A custom Copper wire channel was built along with custom fixture mounts soldered onto the copper roof. The small eyebrow window has a Kichler 15398 MR11 fixture mounted on a gutter hanger with the GE 20W 30 Degree lamps also.
The entrance steps and columns are down lit with Lightolier LVR2000 recessed fixtures converted for remote transformer operation with Lightolier 2006 Apertures lamped with Titan MR16 20W 60 Degree lamps.

[extlights]

I was posting to this thread before but got kicked out, so I apologize if the other post shows up along with this.

We are in a "dark" area ourselves. There are certain lighting ordinances in place to protect the sky due to a large telescope in the area. However....in our area, lighting is still permitted. There are certain rules a regulations that need to be followed, but it does not say that up lighting is not permitted. We have to use up to a certain wattage bulb, and the system has to be off by 11pm.

In our 2 years in business, we have yet to do a job that did not include facade lighting. True, a couple of the jobs we have done didn't have the "appeal" that I normally like, but it's still a business, and we don't get referrals from customers who are unhappy. Like Sitelights stated, I'm not going to walk away from a job because it's not the look that I normally go for, but if the customer's happy, then I'm happy.

We've been into a lot of "dark" subdivisions like you stated. No street lights, post lights are optional, and no landscape lighting on any property. We've been very successful in those types of situations. Generally once we get one job, we usually get a few calls from that same subdivsion after they see their neighbors home. A lot of responses we've gotten have been due to lack of knowledge on who does this type of lighting. I say just keep at it. Sometime things take longer to catch on in certain areas. It's the same here, and in just 2 years we've seen a huge increase in people interested in some type of lighting around their home. Be it facade lighting, landscape lighting or both.

[JC Lighting]

extlights

Thanks for the info and the encouraging words. I'm gathering data to make some major decisions and your response is tiping the scales in a positive direction.

Jim C.