Upb

[LowVoltPro]

Hey guys, Happy 4th of July!!!

Sitelites, have you or anyone else on here discussed Universal Powerline Bus control systems?

I have been playing with a few different types of systems in the last year and am seeing huge potential for them in our industry. One company referres to their UPB system as "1 Million Times Stronger Than X-10". We all know the issues with X-10 and this UPB is really nothing like it, it is much more sophisticated. Anyway, I have been experimenting with this system that requires a computer interface but has astronomical settings, manual On and Off, and the ability to control up to 30 some odd zones in unison or on there own time schedules. The signal is so strong that it has the ability to transfer signals between A and B phases without the need for a phase coupler being installed in the panel.

Anyway, I am gathering more info and I will be more than happy to pass along my feedback. For those that want to check it out for themselves, check out Home Controls website and look up UPB.

[sitelights]

Search "upb systems" for some member feedback.

[SteveP]

I agree, UPB is the next frontier for the landscape lighting industry. Of course several systems have been around for awhile, and the better ones are being installed by the 'smart home' geeks in the high-end residences.

The thing that's changing is that the green industry guys who have taken on landscape lighting are now trying to move into the higher end UPB systems to control their lighting. There's a couple big issues here:

1. Products. Landscape lighting isn't set-up well for dimming. You can't really dim the primary on transformers due to buzzing and messing up photocells and time clocks. And, you can't currently control the secondaries with these systems. At best, you can turn the lights on and off remotely (still, that's pretty good but homeowners want dimming and I don't blame them.)

2. Learning Curves. The best UPB systems require a certain level of geekiness to learn. I recently took a PCS training course. I was able to learn the system fairly well but it did require me to learn some software that I'm sure would baffle many.

Having said all that, it's clear that more and more homeowners will want their lights controllable with their smart home systems. If I had a landscape lighting business, I would either learn to install a UPB system or partner with a smart home guy.

[Mike M]

Just curious about two things, one, are LED's dimmable without effecting much color temp? Two, I don't see why they can't place the technology in "in-line 12 V" nearor at the fixture, like they do with "in-line" for 120. It would only require mounting a device to manipulate 12v integrated with the transformer, while getting it's information from the line voltage. That would solve the timer/transformer issue.

In fact, if it's at the transformer, a 12v in-line smart device could be installed at the head of each home run to control groups of lights.

Okay, if nobody wants to answer the second question, that's okay, but I still want to know if the LED's are dimmable. If so, then a variable resistor/fader could be installed at the fixture or integrated into the fixture for just the right effect. If the LED's are not dimmable by resistence, then why not have them work like multi-filiment bulbs?--the LED's I saw by Vista had multiple LED lights inside each "bulb."

[Paul]

Eden Lights is big time into upb. I have started using the Control Scape system and it seems to be quite good, though I have had a couple of issues. It is waaayyyy better than X10 which I never even bothered with.

[Eden Lights]

I have spent thousands of hours working with upb systems, I have installed every upb device that is being sold today and many that are not yet or will never make it to market. The largest landscape lighting company in the US is installing it so I am not a pioneer. We no longer install any systems without UPB or some other advanced control system and that has been the case for over two years. This is a public forum so my comments are very biased to be positive in nature, so keep that it mind. No control system is without fault from the $500 UPB system to the $150,000 Lutron Homeworks system. Please read the following thread and use the search feature here. Please return and post any questions in this thread if you wish. I will make some more comments as time allows in the next few days. I have no ties any one product and I have never received any money from anyone other than my client’s installations in the area of UPB. I have made it known that I could put together an unbiased Landscape Lighting control course or class if some party was interested. A manufacturer asked me a couple of weeks ago; did I think the future was in controls or in LEDS? My answer was without doubt controls, since controls have provided great improvements in the look and the function of our designs and installs of Landscape lighting systems. LEDS, while offering some power consumption and lamp life benefits are far from acceptable in photometrics, color, and overall light quality to be used in a residential setting. So baring no legislation on Lamps vs Leds, I am pushing controls and watching LEDS.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=185123

[Paul]

Eddie, I think that you are right on about the future of our industry going more toward controls than LED for all of the reasons you stated. I would like to get together with you to discuss these controls, if you don't mind. I do have a guy who has a home controls company and I'm sure he would love to get in on more of my projects. Before I bring him in though, I want to know what's going on and how it's all going to work with my equipment.

[Illuminator]

I have installed a couple of jobs with the Control Scapes UPB devices, but I didn't see anything about these computer interfaces and 30+ zone capabilities. Did I miss something, or am I buying the wrong product? Eden, if you have the answer, I would appreciate a PM or email if you don't want to post in public.

Thank you,

[Eden Lights]

I have installed a couple of jobs with the Control Scapes UPB devices, but I didn't see anything about these computer interfaces and 30+ zone capabilities. Did I miss something, or am I buying the wrong product? Eden, if you have the answer, I would appreciate a PM or email if you don't want to post in public.

Thank you,

The controlscape system is designed to control up to eight receivers. See them here - http://www.controlscape.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=0_23

The controlscape system is an excellent eight receiver control system. It is super easy to setup, it can be setup in the time it takes to open Upstart when doing other upb systems. It is a timer and a interface for your client to turn those eight things on and off from it's location. The guys at Controlscape are great and they introduced me to UPB a few years back and we talk almost weekly since I use the Controlscape timer for certain clients. Recievers are universal and everyones units are about the same. I sell clients that have a limited budget and no interest in controls, above the eight devices the Controlscape system. If you don't want to do or have someone do line voltage electrical work than this sytem is a good fit also. The controlscape system design, setup, function, and sales practices was directly setup with you in mind. Now if your client has a larger budget and shows more interest in controls then you wouldn't want to limit your sales to 8 recievers now would you? That is when I use other options.

[Illuminator]

Could you explain some of these other options? Or, at least, point me in the direction of a trainer / teacher? Again, email or PM is an option if it is uncomfortable for you to talk about in public.

Thanks again,

[LowVoltPro]

I too have used Controlscape products. I recently went away from them for a few reasons. One was when I was first introduced (about a year ago)they were pushing a digital LCD touch panel that had 30 opperating zones, it had the astronomical settings i liked as well as the ability to dim zones. But then my LCD panels began to fail and I began to have problems programming zip codes intot he panels, these panels by the way were $500 ea. and that wasn't including the relay appliance modules. So then Andy at Controlscape told me he was eliminating that controller and going to a counter top controller which is the controller you all are reffering to. I recently started recieving ad's from Controlscape showing they only have this controller and not the LCD panel which to me was a huge selling feature for me and my clients.
I since have gone to using Simply Automated as my source for all things UPB. Downside is it requires a computer interface for programming unlike Controlscape which housed all the programming intelligence in either the desktop controller or LCD controller. Upside is I get 30 zones to control which I like due to the fact I charge extra to set interior and exterior line voltage fixtures and lamps on the UPB system relays with dimmers so I can dim the lights on posts and lanterns as to not compete with my Low Voltge design and then when my Low Voltage turns off those 110v fixtures fire back up to 100% intensity allowing for proper saftey and security thru the night. I am considering giving the Controlscape a shot again especially on my smaller projects where the need for only 4 zones or so is required.
As you all know I am still new to this forum and have not figured everything out in terms of searching for topics but this is one topic (control systems)I see as being and playing a huge role in our buisnesses.

[Eden Lights]

I will post some more answers to some questions, but for now I will comment on the Simply-Automated UCS unit. It is not programmed with your computer and upstart, it is all programmed manually using its keypads. It can have 99 events and can control 250 devices, so I doubt you can outsell it on that spec. Example: at dusk 100 transformers come on by appliance modules, 100 loads come on by Dimmer or Relay Switch, 25 Interior decorative lamps come on by use of an lamp module and say 25 Low volt or Contact Input/Output Modules operate relays in the pool control box. Remember you can do 99 of those events anyway you want and every device can be made to do whatever you want. Example: at dusk transformer on with appliance module on at 100%, front porch dimmer on at 60%, and back door on at 70% then at midnight transformer off at 0%, Front porch dimmer on at 70%, Back Door dimmer on 75%, and Flood on at 50%, then at dawn all off at 0%. Now all the devices and the network information are programmed with a PC running upstart from anywhere you can get on the power line with your programmable interface module, then the SA UCS is programmed manually to send the links or (scenes) that you set up on your pc. I am leaving a ton out of all this, but there is no way I can get anyone up to speed on Upstart programmed UPB from a few posts on a forum. I recommend focusing on your Lighting business 100%, start using the Control Scape product and then as a hobby buy Robert N.Bucceri's book on UPB Home Control, read all the manufacturers websites and all the product's written materials, spend some money playing with all the products at your home and see if it is for you. While the Upstart programmed products are feature rich they come after a major investment in time and resources. It is my hobby that bleeds over in my business way to much, outside of family activities I have not boated, golfed, fished, hunted, or anything else in about 4 years. It's too late for me, but not for you.

It may come really easy for you, but I remember once I was having programming problems at a house and after several hours into working on it I found that one of the transformers was plugged in to the always hot pass through on the appliance module causing the transformer to be on all the time. I had been looking at the programming for hours in upstart when the problem was in the basics.

[Keff]

Are there any seminars available on these control systems?